JR 8psi upgrade

[zoomlfe]

I've been reading this board for the past couple of months. I have to say that this is my favorite car site. The people here are very informative and extremely helpful. I got my JRSC installed a couple of weeks ago and played with the idea of upgrading to 8psi of boost. But I haven't made up my mind with what I want to get. J&S, MSD BTM, injectors, FMU, Apex V-AFC, etc... Well I called up Jackson Racing and asked them what I would need to get to upgrade to 8psi. They mentioned that they are coming out with an 8psi kit within the next month. The kit includes: pulley, belts, fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator. Can't wait!

[AvanishV]

I just got off the phone with Jim at JR and he told me that their 8psi upgrade is still going to use the same FPR with the same rising rate (5:1) as the one the 6psi guys are already using, and still use stock injectors.

How is this going to work? Obviously they're not going to warranty anything and they said the price will be right around $500.

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1995 Integra GSR
JR Supercharger (6 psi), HO fuel pump, RS*R Header, Thermal R&D Exhaust, Iceman Intake, Neuspeed Front Tower Bar, Type-R Rear Swaybar, Short Shifter, ST 1.3" drop springs

[This message has been edited by AvanishV (edited June 07, 2000).]

[Bigkat]

sjoback- Nah man, I've been working on my H22 hybrid. Spec R Tuning and PYR both said they could make it for me. I just haven't gotten around to it. By the way, I looked at my 3.4 pulley and it is a 3-rib pulley. What year Civic do you have?

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'95 Civic EX w/ JRSC(6psi)& Nos 25 shot,JG TB, Stillen 4-1 header, HKS 2 1/4 exh., '93 Lude VTEC fuel pump,MSD 6 BTM w/ Blaster SS Coil,APEXi SAFC, Autometer Boost/ Air-Fuel gauges, Centerforce D/F clutch, Act lighten flywheel, Eibach Pro's,Tokico Illuminas,Tenzo Front/ Rear Strut tower braces Best et: 13.98@101mph w/NOS

IN PROCESS:1992 5g VX Hatch w/ 93 Prelude 2.2L Vtec(donor)

[sjoback]

It's a '94 D16Z6. Aren't ours 4rib?

I saw a 96+ JRSC install and the belt looked tiny compared to mine.

[Bigkat]

Yeah my bad, I just look again....I was looking at a custom underdrive pulley for a 6g. My 3.4 is a 4-rib also and it was machined by C.M.R Turbos(I bought it from John at Spec R). I'll call the guys at PYR this week and find out whats up with the pulley's. I'll let you know


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'95 Civic EX w/ JRSC(6psi)& Nos 25 shot,JG TB, Stillen 4-1 header, HKS 2 1/4 exh., '93 Lude VTEC fuel pump,MSD 6 BTM w/ Blaster SS Coil,APEXi SAFC, Autometer Boost/ Air-Fuel gauges, Centerforce D/F clutch, Act lighten flywheel, Eibach Pro's,Tokico Illuminas,Tenzo Front/ Rear Strut tower braces Best et: 13.98@101mph w/NOS

IN PROCESS:1992 5g VX Hatch w/ 93 Prelude 2.2L Vtec(donor)

[Bigkat]

sjoback - Just talk to the guys at PYR. They don't do many of them any more. But they would for $200 and it will take 2-2 1/2 weeks


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'95 Civic EX w/ JRSC(6psi)& Nos 25 shot,JG TB, Stillen 4-1 header, HKS 2 1/4 exh., '93 Lude VTEC fuel pump,MSD 6 BTM w/ Blaster SS Coil,APEXi SAFC, Autometer Boost/ Air-Fuel gauges, Centerforce D/F clutch, Act lighten flywheel, Eibach Pro's,Tokico Illuminas,Tenzo Front/ Rear Strut tower braces Best et: 13.98@101mph w/NOS

IN PROCESS:1992 5g VX Hatch w/ 93 Prelude 2.2L Vtec(donor)

[sjoback]

Whoa that's pretty pricey.

thanks for the info though.

pretty quick on that one!

[green95gsr]

Hi,

I just got my JRSC installed and I'm just enjoying the extra power, etc. Anyway, This whole subject about the 8psi upgrades and all made me want to share a bit of my second hand knowledge.
I came from the Miata camp and have owned a JRSC Miata. I also know a bunch of Miata weenies who have f/i mostly with JRSC. The search for more power is a common addiction among all gear heads. Once we get bitten by the bug it is hell to stop
The guys with Miatas who were not satisfied with 6 psi (or less, typically 5 psi) of the standard JRSC tried all types of stratagems to increase power. The main thing is to go to * psi *upgrades*. Needless to say, they run into all the same (or very similar) problems that the 'Teg peeps do. Eventually, all who seek ultimate power *must* go with turbos and pay the price (in terms of risk and cost).
The one curious thing that I've seen is that when there was a DYNO day and a bunch of JRSC Miatas went there, the highest power numbers were recorded by 6 psi installations with A'pex AFC's and nothing else (oh yeah, these blowers had some porting done to the plenum and the dummy throttle body but nothing else). The general feeling was of frustration and disappointment by sopme of the guys who tried all the 8 psi mods for no good results. Of course, I don't know that these things relate to the GSRs who have gone the 8 psi route. I'm sure that all cases must be taken individually and every installation is different.
I'm a little reluctant to try to spin the blower faster and to deal with all the potential fuel and timing management issues. The JRSC was originally developed by Downing in Atlanta for the Miata and for the BMW Z3. The standard 6 psi kit does make a lot of power over the N/A configuration, and does it fairly reliably and without undue problems. My guess is that due to the OBDII and other issues, it just is not a good business decision for JR or others to try the higher boost options. I'm pretty sure that a lot of development work has been done by Downing, JR and others but the problems out weight the benefits, so no go on these things
The good news is that some folks can and do implement very nice increases of power but unfortunately they must go at it on their own.
There is alway the turbo option, but I'm sure beyond doubt that there are many, many thotny issues that must be addressed with the turbos as well. Their only salvation is the easy (?) implementation of intercoolers which is not an option with the roots blowers like the Eaton pumps.

Manuel

[sjoback]

good info there on the miata situation. definately helps at least as far as the civic setups (similar blower size).

[green95gsr]

I'm happy to share the info about the Miatas with fellow F/I fans (no pun intended). The Eaton M45 blower is definitely at the ragged edge of it's design capacity. I would definitely advise against the bigger pulleys for those pumps. The overdriven blower is not a pretty sight, also the charge temps get totally out of hand when you go much faster than the stock config.
The funny thing is that the Miata has the blower in the other side of the engine from the intake. The TB is relocated to the side of the blower and a dummy TB takes its place in front of the intake manifold (you keep the stock intake) anyway, this creates a distance from the blower to the dummy TB which is bridged by a cross tube about 2.5" in dia. Some folks added Saab I/Cs and other I/Cs in that space. The problem is that the Roots blower is a fixed displacement pump and the compressed air volume created in the I/C and plumbing between the TB and the intake causes all manners of idle problems. Also there is a big drop in pressure due to the extra long path of the charge.
So actually, the Civic and GSR installations with the blower directly mounted on the custom intake is the way to go. Of course, there is abosultely no way to add a conventional I/C to these systems. I guess water injection is the best solution but it has definite drawbacks. From what I read it seems that whatever porting Endyn does to the blowers and manifolds, etc. is probably money and time well spent. I had some parts of my Mita kit ported and polished (not the blower itself) and it seemed to make the car very strong and never detonated even though I made less indicated boost than most other people with similar set ups (better breathing=less pressure, less adiabatic heat in the charge, less prone to detonate).
It makes sense that optimizing the path of the air will improve efficiency producing less pressure (boost) and less heat but moving more air. One could actually turn the blowers ever more slowly with great results. Unfortunately, I did not get the Endyn mods done to my blower/manifold. I just ran out of money and did not want to wait any longer so I have the stock JRSC installed with a very conservative timing setting to avoid detonation. I'm going to add a VAFC as soon as I can so I can improve my fuel delivery. I also think that an MSD timing control unit would be very nice so I can advance my static timing. I've had a J&S in my turbo Miata and I personally don't like them. IMHO, they are hard to adjust so they only work when needed. Often times the J&S will react too strongly and take out way too much timing. I don't like a reactive system. I prefer a pro-active set up to prevent the onset of detonation rather than to try to stop it after it starts. This is just my opinion, your mileage might vary, etc.

Manuel